r/CombatFootage
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u/broforwin
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Apr 01 '23
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Ukrainian forces using a US donated M58 MICLIC to clear a field Video
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u/sempakrica Apr 01 '23
Wait, is the rope made of C4? That explosion was bigger than I expected
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u/EfficiencyStrong2892 Apr 01 '23
5 lbs of C4 per foot.
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u/lord_fairfax Apr 01 '23
Sorry im not american, what is that in wallabies per shoey?
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u/SupermAndrew1 Apr 01 '23
7,452,000 grams per kilometer
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u/NeedWittyUsername Apr 02 '23
Or 7500g per metre...
Or 7.5kg per metre, which is about 3 chihuahuas per metre or about 1 chihuahua per 30cm.
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u/qtain Apr 01 '23
It's 12 crickeys to the barbie, if that helps.
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u/ABCDEFuckenG Apr 01 '23
Theres no way you calculated to that level of accuracy, i call bull.
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u/qtain Apr 01 '23
Obviously you can, using the triangular equation of Pim's to Marmite ratio, taking into account the rotational axis of the spanner calibration.
As you can see, the math does prove it.
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u/audigex Apr 02 '23
Aight quick maths
5lb/ft (American) is roughly 7.5kg/m in European - I use European as an intermediary here because it seems to be a good "halfway house" between American and Australian units of measurement
An average wallaby weighs around 4.5kg, and an average Australian shoe size is around 24-25cm long. I'll use 25cm for an easier guesstimate
So as a rough ballpark figure that's about 0.42 wallabies per shoey
Follow me for more Daniel Ricciardo facts
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u/Emu1981 Apr 03 '23
An average wallaby weighs around 4.5kg
What is a "average wallaby" though? Wallabys can range from 1.3kg for a fully grown Nabarlek through to 11kg for a Black-Striped Wallaby (and apparently even up to 24kg for some type of wallaby that is often referred to but never actually named).
TL:DR; Saying "average wallaby" is like saying "average bird".
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u/audigex Apr 03 '23
There are a lot of species around that 4-5kg mark, though, including most of the most populous species
So I’d be somewhat confident that the median wallaby in Australia is somewhere around that weight
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u/TransplantedSconie Apr 01 '23
Mega Det cord, lol. Stuff is the balls. The thin stuff you can wrap around trees to bring them down in a hurry.
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u/SFWsamiami Apr 01 '23
det cord by weight is more powerful than c4, but they're best used to compliment each other. unless you're indoors and need to get into that door. best use a donut charge made with det cord.
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u/juxtoppose Apr 01 '23
Wonder if we will get HD footage of that rope landing inside 150 yards of packed Russian trench long ways? One can only hope.
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u/golgol12 Apr 01 '23
It looks like half of that was a mine or two, given the two different colored clouds.
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u/silentsnip94 Apr 01 '23
What a marvel of engineering and design
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Apr 01 '23
[deleted]
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u/HardwareSoup Apr 01 '23
There's a video floating around somewhere of some group using the Russian version in a city to blast enemy positions.
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u/Ruining_Ur_Synths Apr 01 '23
its a rocket powered rope of explosives, for whenever you need a rocket powered rope of explosives
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u/EuroPolice Apr 01 '23
It has a surprising amount of uses. We got one last month and my wife loves it!
It made our morning routine so much easier! Now I don't need to make coffee every morning, nor any other food. A nice fellow from the government put us on some kind of industrial style hotel that feeds us daily.
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u/theoriginalmofocus Apr 01 '23
I got my wife one a few Christmases ago. At first she hated it because who likes getting appliances or tools for Christmas but everytime she uses it she's like "This is the best gift ever, its so easy to use and saves so much time"
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u/Cos93 Apr 01 '23 edited Apr 01 '23
They did that in Mariupol. I know the video you’re talking about
This is it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7MOu1HQPCc
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u/OrdinaryFrosting1 Apr 01 '23
Marines used it in Fallujah to clear whole streets at once, but I read that in a book not a video
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u/WALancer Apr 01 '23
My whole god damn army career was a lie. Breach and clear mined wire obstacle, Breach and clear mined wire obstacle, Breach and clear mined wire obstacle......
WHERE IS THE GOD DAMN WIRE, WHERE IS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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u/shawster Apr 01 '23
The plowed things that you can push around that can set off the mines without much damage seem way more efficient. You could clear a path for miles.
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u/silverfox762 Apr 01 '23
I'm waiting for video of them using this to clear Russian trenches.
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u/Primordial_Cumquat Apr 01 '23
It’s a long video, but it’s well worth the watch to describe how it would be executed. Combined arms breaches are one of the more difficult and dangerous military operations out there.
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u/Vsesweet Apr 01 '23
This is a scenario based on the 1990 exercise.
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u/Primordial_Cumquat Apr 01 '23
Correct. While the technology has slightly changed, and the doctrine looks familiar, more or less, the US Army has decided the decisive effort needs to be even larger than a brigade.
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u/Vsesweet Apr 01 '23
I would be lying if I said that I understand this issue well, but I do not see examples of such tactics in this war. And also in this video, I do not see a high density of enemy artillery fire and the use of drones,
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u/Primordial_Cumquat Apr 01 '23
There are currently no examples in this war. With western armor and other mobility assets backfilling Ukraine’s inventory, this could be a method in which they’d use the aforementioned linear charges to expose and exploit breaches in Russian defensive lines, i.e. the much anticipated “spring offensives”. We haven’t seen large groupings of Ukrainian armor working in unison; a tank battalion and supporting IFV, APC, and Infantry companies could punch a hole, cut Russia’s land bridge, and push straight to the Sea of Azov.
Again, this is an incredibly labor and casualty intensive operation to execute. Commanders would have to mitigate enemy indirect fires and air as best they can with preparatory fires, counter-battery, and short-range/mid-range air defense.
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Apr 01 '23
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u/ontopofyourmom Apr 01 '23
A siege takes Crimea back
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Apr 01 '23
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u/MedicalFoundation149 Apr 02 '23
Long enough ranged anti-ship missiles would do the job easily enough. Especially with US drones and recon aircraft providing location data for Russian craft in the area.
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u/Timmymagic1 Apr 01 '23
Invented by the British in WW2. Called the Conger, rocket fired hose that was then pumped full of nitro-glycerine and detonated. More famous for an awful accident that killed 80 troops...
Post war they refined the design to create the Giant Viper system in the 1950's. The US ended up copying the idea in the 80's to create MICLIC. The UK has since moved on to the Python system which clears a lane twice as long as previous systems.
MICLIC is notorious for being unreliable...with failures to detonate fairly commonplace...the line once deployed could however be fired manually by setting a fuse on the end...this is referred to as 'The Medal of Honor Run' by US Combat Engineers...
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u/taws34 Apr 01 '23
Combat Engineers. The only job where a guy runs forward, tosses out a grappling hook, drops to his belly, pulls the hook in... And repeats until he gets across the minefield or dies.
Bunch of fucking maniacs.
Breach naked, Hooah.
Source: was a medic for a Combat Engineer battalion.
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u/rocket___goblin Apr 01 '23
man this sucks this whole country is going to be fucked for several years after the war with just mine clean up along with several accidents.
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u/Jurijus1 Apr 01 '23
years
Decades
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u/vale_fallacia Apr 01 '23
Zone Rouge in France, from world war 1, will take centuries to clear.
War leaves scars on everything.
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u/TransplantedSconie Apr 01 '23
Holy shit. They say it will take 700 years to clear it! Incredible
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u/greatGoD67 Apr 02 '23
Well yes, with a budget. There was maybe a time prior to erosion where it could have been cleared it in a matter of days if we just ran millions of cows across a field
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u/space_iio Apr 02 '23
Or millions of those Spot Boston dynamics robots. With economies of scale and ai advances I'd give it 10 years until it's a literal no-brainer
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u/MDCCCLV Apr 01 '23
The only chance is that there might be good satellite surveillance, so they might know all the areas the mines could be. This is the first time you've had a large conflict break out with the current modern surveillance, and the flat fields in eastern Ukraine are easy to see from space.
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u/miitchepooo Apr 01 '23
Scatterable mines are a thing with many different deployment methods, like artillery… sats ain’t tracking that lol
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u/RampantPrototyping Apr 01 '23
Yeah but atleast those arent buried below the ground so at least they are more easily spotted
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u/RevolutionaryTwo6587 Apr 01 '23
Notice that its a tow behind trailer which means its cheap, low maintenance, and can be fitted to any vehicle. Unlike the soviet/russian one which is its own special armored vehicle, expensive and extra maintenance.
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u/Rude_Conclusion_5907 Apr 01 '23
How much u think for that 1750lbs line of c4 ?
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u/the_other_OTZ Apr 01 '23
About 5 toilets at the Pentagon.
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u/ScuffedA7IVphotog Apr 01 '23
this guy knows US Government waste
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u/Space_Narwhals Apr 01 '23
All that mysterious spending on blackwater projects has to go somewhere.
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u/shuipz94 Apr 01 '23
"Fun" fact, The Pentagon has double the number of toilets needed for a building of its size due to segregation in Virginia at the time, though Roosevelt signed an order prohibiting it from being enforced in federal buildings.
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u/wkapp977 Apr 01 '23
How much is it in stepladders?
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u/the_other_OTZ Apr 01 '23
I thought you wrote step daughters at first and had to double check which sub I was in
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u/nivivi Apr 01 '23 edited Apr 01 '23
How much u think for that 1750lbs line of c4 ?
Not all the much. That entire charge would be <$30,000 probably. Explosives are rather cheap, compared to everything else in the military. They are relatively basic (heh) chemicals.
The main cost out of that 30k would be for the rocket propelling it, and not the explosives themselves, which would be <$10k
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u/TheyCallMeDingus Apr 01 '23
There is an air force EOD guy in /r/nfa that said they paid 28 dollars for a 1.25 lbs brick. I assume it's cheaper when you buy it by the shipping container when making them
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u/Inigo93 Apr 01 '23 edited Apr 01 '23
Nah, it's still spendy.
C4 is really nothing more than RDX in a matrix. But RDX is itself a waste product.... a shitty explosive that you use when you want something cheap. 'Cause it turns out that RDX is a biproduct of HMX production (try to make HMX - the good stuff! - and you'll get a mixture of both HMX and RDX). Which means that RDX is cheap when compared to HMX... Last I heard, raw HMX is something like $120/pound (probably a decade ago!). And that's before you actually start making a useable item with it.
That said, /u/nivivi is correct. Rocket motors are much more expensive than raw explosives. Mostly because the manufacturing/QC requirements on rocket motors are MUCH more involved even if the materials themselves are often very similar.
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u/h8speech Apr 02 '23
try to make HMX - the good stuff! - and you’ll get a mixture of both HMX and RDX
This is incorrect. I tried to make HMX and all I got was 25 years in a federal penitentiary.
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u/kanst Apr 01 '23
explosives are rather cheap, compared to everything else in the military.
This is the core tradeoff in weapons design. We can still make dumb bombs real cheap, we can even make em real big with lots of explosives.
But what the military wants is relatively small explosives that they can deliver to a really precise point in space and only then detonate it. Its all the shit that gets the explosive to that point in space that costs all the money.
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u/gd_akula Apr 01 '23
Even then we're getting remarkably good at economizing that. First The JDAM and now M1156 PGK for 155 shells. Turns out its way cheaper and logistically simpler to build lots of dumb munitions with bolt on smart kits than building distinct guided munitions like the GBU-12 paveway or the M982 Excalibur
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u/Imyourpappy Apr 01 '23
Looks like about $12K USD
https://www.dacis.com/budget/budget_pdf/FY15/PROC/A/0442EA0800_17.pdf
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u/Caleo Apr 01 '23
Cheaper than sending 5 tanks to soak up a minefield to push through during an offensive.
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u/LostInTheSauce34 Apr 01 '23
That's the older version. They have outfitted abrams tanks without the main gun for this now.
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Apr 01 '23
Do they not use the tow behind trailer anymore?
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u/LostInTheSauce34 Apr 01 '23
They started phasing it out in 2013. It's now mounted on an abrams tank operated by engineers. The army finally went the route the Marines did. Although the trailer is probably good, the engineer vehicles are probably better since they do the breaching now instead of putting all that crap on front of the abrams tank.
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u/Shaved_taint Apr 01 '23
I'm dating myself here, but as young picket pounder back in the late nineties we mounted them on 60 class chassis as well as the bridge laying AVLB in the A&O Platoon. The line platoons did have the trailers for their M113s though
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u/ithappenedone234 Apr 01 '23
I’ve never seen a bridge layer except on display. Maybe they are in some unit’s MTOE, but I’ve never seen it.
I’m a grunt so not a leading expert or anything, but the tow behind trailers are still in use but the engineers did get an upgrade to an M1 chassis with MCLIC. All the 60s and Sheridans etc are gone.
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u/N2DPSKY Apr 02 '23
Essayons! This is exactly right. We had trailer mounted versions in each platoon, but for Desert Storm we put two on the AVLB chassis and left the bridges behind.
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u/CrazyCanuckBiologist Apr 01 '23
I'm sure those phased out trailers went to a bone yard in the desert, just in case you needed to do something like... I don't know... donate them to a country fighting the Russians at very little actual cost to the US taxpayer.
Note: I say little actual cost because much of what the US has been donating is outdated stuff that has been preserved just in case, so was paid for a long time ago. However, it gets announced in the press release at full sticker price. Transport is still a significant cost, especially if airlifted, but you also save on maintaining it in the bone yard. Unlike Russia, the US actually does a decent (not perfect, but decent) job of maintaining its reserve equipment.
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u/N2DPSKY Apr 02 '23
It's a box with a tilt arm for the rocket. We have outfitted them to M-60 and M-1 chassis so we can shoot two. Russian doctrine calls for 200m deep minefields, so we shoot one, roll forward with a mine plow equipped tank chassis and shoot the second. Very quick breach.
Former Combat Engr here.
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u/Ichera Apr 01 '23
The US Army always had a version which could be mounted to armored vehicles, they have not phased out this model as it still has uses in lighter units, but this system was also availible for use on the M60 AVLB. However a lot of engineering units are being requipped with purpose built breaching vehicles (the M1150) which are essentially a abrams fitted with a specialized steel plow and modified m58 MCLIC which can be used in a shooting environment.
Also interesting tidbit about the M1150, the Army canceled its side of the program in 1990. But the Marines persisted, and it would see its first use in combat in Afghanistan in 2010 with the Marines.
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u/Dominus-Temporis Apr 02 '23
And now the Marines are getting rid of their tanks, so the Army gets their hand-me-downs for a change.
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u/Brilliant-Rooster762 Apr 01 '23
My thoughts exactly. The Russian meteor is just a tracked howitzer.
It just goes for show how Russian militech stagnated at Soviet era.
As Perun said "The Russian army is modern and large, just the modern part isn't large and the large part isn't modern"
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u/oxslashxo Apr 01 '23
I'm sure American corporations are charging 10x-40x more than the Russian variant for ammo though.
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u/MoeSzyslakMonobrow Apr 01 '23
They're gonna launch that down a trench full of wagnerites, and I'm gonna have popcorn ready.
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u/meloenmarco Apr 01 '23
It is used for clearing obstacles.
Wagnerites are obstacles that need to be blasted away
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u/Dat_Innocent_Guy Apr 01 '23
it's in their nature to sit there and take it.
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u/MalnarThe Apr 01 '23
Just saw a video of a tank firing down the line of a trench point blank. Crazy
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u/Ronkerjake Apr 01 '23
Give them the trench blade for the abrams and just bury them, don't need to waste ammo
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Apr 01 '23
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u/neatchee Apr 01 '23
No, it would be different if there weren't anything wrong happening and they said "I look forward to seeing people killed."
But that's not what is happening.
If there are Nazis in front of me beating the shit out of someone, I look forward to seeing them killed.
If there is someone getting raped in front of me, I look forward to seeing the rapist get killed.
Looking forward to justice is not wrong, even when that justice involves violence.
When evil exists, I look forward to seeing that evil destroyed. It's that simple
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u/Jesture4 Apr 01 '23
Anybody see the Iraq invasion documentary where the US Marines were using one, and it didn’t go off?
Devil Dog had to manually set the charge off, they called it the “medal of honor run”.
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u/Jond0331 Apr 01 '23
When I was in Iraq we used one, except it wrapped around the top of a telephone pole. They detonated it and it had no real effect on the area we were about to cross. They told us to go anyways. Luckily there were no mines or IEDs.
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u/morfgo Apr 01 '23
Lol Sound Like something the Russians would do
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u/ithappenedone234 Apr 01 '23 edited Apr 02 '23
Our engineers were clearing suspected IEDs by driving over them. Let’s not pretend we’ve been doing everything “properly.” Most troops went without adequate support for the mission assigned to them in GWOT.
E: typo
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u/ksx25 Apr 01 '23
Maybe it’s just the nature of these machines, but I’ve never seen a mine explode in one of these videos, just the charge. Again, maybe it’s just not possible to discern a ground explosion underneath the rope/line charge, but I always watch these videos trying to pick out a mine exploding.
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u/MrZiggityZag Apr 01 '23
And also possible there isn't a mine, but probably better to check anyways...
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u/boyden Apr 01 '23
Lobbing out 30k just to be sure
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u/monstargh Apr 02 '23
Other option is sending out people and they have a much higher cost in training
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u/MasterPPregnancyTips Apr 01 '23
Likely depends on the explosive use in the mines, and it may just damage the trigger ?
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u/SubatomicPlatypodes Apr 01 '23
i think usually we see them in testing operations, and also the rope just has a way bigger explosion, withs lots of fire and smoke
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u/tank5 Apr 01 '23
An antitank mine is like 12lb of explosive. If the stat above that this thing is 4lb of explosive per foot, it would be impossible to see a mine go off unless you had the perfect view and knew where to look.
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u/ithappenedone234 Apr 01 '23
The speed of the explosive is faster than can be seen in one 30 or 60 fps frame.
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u/CanadaJack Apr 01 '23
Sure is too bad that Russia used all theirs clearing out civilian housing instead of mines.
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u/unkemp7 Apr 01 '23
Some of the videos of Russia launching it over city blocks onto buildings looked devastating
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u/FieelChannel Apr 01 '23
Any links?
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u/unkemp7 Apr 01 '23
Here is one
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u/CantHideFromGoblins Apr 01 '23
Sad and hilarious the actual bumpkin in the comment section there acting like they had mines of the roof of houses that needed to be cleared
Then goes on to claim its propaganda.
There’s no winning with the unenlightened
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u/RatKing_Spaghetti Apr 01 '23
My buddy said they were using this in Iraq on buildings with snipers instead of clearing it with infantry. I didn't really understand the power of these things until seeing the video in Syria(?) where the c4 rope blows up a city block.
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u/RCP_Espresso Apr 01 '23
I've always wondered why they left the MCLC using the old electronic initiation system instead of converting it over to MDI. Imagine showing up to clear the breach and your batteries are dead... then you have to send out PFC Snuffy with some C4
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u/Tjfish25874 Apr 01 '23
These are great until it doesn’t go off and you have to be the guy to run out there with the safety shot lol. Hardest I’ve ever run in kit in my life
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u/LANDSC4PING Apr 01 '23
Some roads in Afghanistan had so many mines, that we'd just use these to clear the entire way --- it was much faster and safer than trying to find and eliminate them individually. Dozens of launches in a day. We (infantry) would pull security for the engineers. I was told you really wouldn't want to be in that MaxxPro if the trailer gets hit by an RPG.
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u/tothemoonandback01 Apr 02 '23
Yeah, its not pretty (for the occupants) as this Russian one shows https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11406865/Russian-vehicle-destroyed-huge-explosion-Ukraines-Donbas.html
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u/Accomplished_Oil5622 Apr 01 '23
Say what you want about America but fuck they have some cool stuff
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u/Boonaki Apr 01 '23
Hope they gave them hearing protection.
The rocket that fires the line charge is one of the loudest weapon systems in the world, a 155mm artillery round being fired is a 180 decibels, that rocket is a 190-200+ decibels, that's instant and permanent hearing damage.
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u/firefighter_raven Apr 01 '23
I keep wondering about bringing back the idea of the Flail tank used in WW2 to clear mines.
For those that don't know, it was a tank with a rotating drum with heavy chains attached to slam the ground and detonate mines. Not as useful with modern AT mines but maybe to clear an area with ap mines. Leave cool shit like this for the bigger mines.
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u/HenryZero9-A Apr 02 '23
I'm wondering how long until they realize this makes for a great de-trenching tool as well...I'd have to look up ROA to see if using it that way is legal...But if it is...Man what a great way to clear out a trench line...
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u/PinchMaNips Apr 01 '23
I had no idea we had something like this, but of course we do? Although it doesn’t seem to cover as much ground as russia’s, It also isn’t its own vehicle which seems a bit better.
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u/Imaccqq Apr 01 '23
The US also has a vehicle mounted version called the M1150 Assault Breacher Vehicle.
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u/PinchMaNips Apr 01 '23
Jesus. So many toys. Learning about new things daily and it never stops impressing me. Even this little guy packs a mean punch.
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u/BattleHall Apr 01 '23
They have an even smaller man-portable version, too; fits in a backpack.
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u/IzttzI Apr 01 '23
As someone else mentioned we have a vehicle, but I would argue that the tow behind is more useful in a lot of cases because you can attach it to almost anything so you never have to worry about an engine issue taking your mine clearing capacity out of order. There's a LOT fewer points of failure on a small tow behind than there is on a dedicated vehicle.
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u/CrazyCanuckBiologist Apr 01 '23
Not to mention a lot easier to airlift somewhere than an Abrams-based vehicle.
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u/tim_dude Apr 01 '23
Directed by Michael Bay
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u/fgerber72 Apr 01 '23
Better directed and more entertaining than a Michael bay film.
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u/jprod97 Apr 03 '23
These things are sick, they even have a backpack version iirc. One of the very few things I never got to fuck with as a combat engineer
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u/Least-Schedule4306 Apr 01 '23
Hasn’t got much of a firing range has it
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u/FirstRedditAcount Apr 01 '23
The perspective of the video certainly doesn't help. Reaches out 100m and creates an 8m wide lane. I imagine you need a certain amount of explosive heft to ensure even the beefiest anti-tank mines in that zone can be triggered.
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u/T_One2 Apr 01 '23
how it's work ?
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u/ithappenedone234 Apr 01 '23
Rocket carries the rope of C4 out across the suspected obstacle. The C4 blows and clears an area ~8x100m of any mines, wire or other obstacles.
Then the engineers should run down the cleared area to confirm and mark the left edge of the safe area with white fabric tape. Then we drive down the safe area with the left side of the rig next to the tape and secure the far side of the breach. If the obstacle is deep, we have do two, with the second one in the middle of the obstacle to clear the other half.
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u/ttoften Apr 01 '23
How to get rid of hidden bombs? More bombs!